It has been requested by someone dear to me to continue sharing interesting history about scripture that is little known to most of us. I am happy to oblige. Then I have business to do; Baptist business. Baptist friends, I am going to be reaching out to pick your brains. Please be ready. 😉 Also, I would like to plug Perkins School of Theology as a place to attend seminary. Theology is interesting here, and not separate from our human lives. Join the Baptist House of Studies if you are from the free church tradition. It is a party everyday with us – just the way Jesus would want it to be. Jesus came for the party, and we don’t get to tell God how to party by giving God the invite list. Nope!
First of all, for all the talk about history, I don’t think we can truly understand our history apart from religion and mythology. Religion creates societies, and it is deeply embedded in our history. Not studying history and religion together-in church and school-hinders our understanding of why events were/and are happening in culture, and why the church (or any religious institution) was/is responding the way it was/is to the events. They go together.
The creation of the idea of Separation of Church and State is not to create a world where our faith is a completely separate facet of our life; it is to allow us to worship how we want (all religions, or no religion) without fear. It is to create a pluralistic society. Our faith will always inform who we are in our society. It is supposed to be a benefit-not to discriminate and tell people they are out. We have a ways to go with this understanding, and that is because this idea of “us vs them” has a long history in our faith. Here is a little history. I am going to show how the gospels are political-well, just Mark for today. They are a counter-narrative to Caesar and the authoritarian rule of religion. Back in the days of Jesus separation of church and state did not exist. A lot of scenes we would call religious persecution might be more politically motivated to conquer land than actually oppressing the religion. But it looks like religious persecution b/c our faith should be opposing this. Great job to those who came before us and stood up to empire.

Rome is where we can probably mark the beginning of white supremacy and missionizing the world-peace achieved through slaughtering was good news:

Here is a reading from the Aenid- A Latin epic poem
Virgil, The Aeneid 6.851–53
Roman, remember by your strength to rule
Earth’s peoples—for your arts are these:
To pacify, to impose the rule of law,
To spare the conquered, battle down the proud.”

Then there is a whole family lineage Virgil is tracing back to Tros. Ares/Mars is in the lineage – God of War. This is how it all got justified, and we aren’t over it yet. This is hard to write in a FB post. This is why I recommend a NT seminary class at Perkins. They have the best professors. I have worked with all three! I also highly recommend Old Testament, and every other class too. All so good.

Ok, now that we have that background, I am including a coin of Octavian Augustus – Super Patron. He wants to be deified, and does it by avenging his father Julius’s death by conquering Mark Antony. He gets his own coin, and
the coin translates as Son of God.

Now that we know this. Lets go to the beginning of the gospel of Mark. (My favorite gospel, along with John)
The gospel of Mark is picking up where Malachi leaves off waiting for the return of Elijah who will return before the great and terrible day to return us to each other before the land is struck with a curse. Now lets read Mark 1: 1-3 NRSV

1 The beginning of the good news[a] of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.[b]
2 As it is written in the prophet Isaiah,[c]
“See, I am sending my messenger ahead of you,[d]
who will prepare your way;
3
the voice of one crying out in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord,
make his paths straight,’”

Look how political these three verses are. The beginning of the good news is not peace through slaughtering, but Jesus Christ. He is flipping the story.
John the Baptist is the new Elijah preparing the way.
And who is the Son of God? Not Caesar!

Teri, one of my dearest friends, wrote this poem for me after reading one of my posts talking about resting. Listening to the Voice that guided me before when it all fell apart. I can’t thank God enough for Teri. Her words are the words of God to me tonight.

The Voice
by Tyresa Colleen King
for Lindsay Blake Bruehl

The madness around me
creates anger within.
The sadness within me
dampers my world.

When I know that I’m right,
that I’ve been wronged,
I am closest to wronging
those I defend.

I hear the madness;
it’s sound deafening.
It drowns out the peace,
silent with the breeze.

When I listen,
I hear the silence;
from which rises
the strongest voice.

A simple word heals me;
Pours salve on my wounds.
The sound that restores me
can never be assumed.

Gaining strength I rise up,
but fall back to rest.
Recovery takes time.
I can’t hasten the voice.

Lying down
is as hard
as taking a stand.
Resting
can require
more discipline
than acting.

A world that is just
captures my dream;
Love surrounding the globe,
like the arms of a god.

How long, O Lord,
must I wait?

How long, O Lord,
have you waited?

©️Tyresa Colleen King June 2020

I’m listening to people of color tell us they’ve been telling white people for a long time, but we didn’t believe them. Now there’s video and some of us are waking up to the reality, but there’s still resistance. This blows my mind.
I want to share an experience where I saw massive injustice, and it was met with disbelief too. It stunned me beyond my wildest imagination.
A child was harmed. I knew it was true. There are reasons I know it’s true and it is devastating.

For a second let this sink in, a child cried out and wasn’t believed.

The child wasn’t believed bc there was nothing the justice system could do. There was not a video or eye witnesses. Only the word of a child. The justice system says without evidence there has to be more victims to back this claim. This happens to women too.

Innocent until proven guilty is a good idea for a justice system, but it’s not good all the time in our personal life when we are hearing heartbreaking stories from vulnerable people who have nothing to gain sharing their story, and are most likely not going to be believed.

I cried my eyes out to my friends, and pleaded from the depths of my soul to protect their children. I was met with hostility and indifference. Just agree to disagree. Thanks for the warning.

Then sexual assault – too controversial for the church to take on. Women with unequal rights is just my problem, not all of ours.

We don’t believe pain. We will share conspiracy theories, but will deny the tears of our siblings. Including our children.

It’s hard to be an enneagram 4 in a society like this. Glennon Doyle said her daughter is a 4 and was driving them crazy with her obsession of polar bears. But her daughter could connect our thriving is connected to the polar bears thriving. In most cultures 4s would be set aside as poets, artists and ministers. Our society ignores. We are screaming ice berg on the Titanic when everyone wants to keep dancing.

We need Lady Wisdom. We are all one.

Grief hits me harder at night. It didn’t help learning of Eddie Sutton’s passing last night as I am still processing the grief of losing one of my dearest friends and family-member-through-marriage, Father Joe-Ted Miller. I have also lost Kenny Rogers during this pandemic too. That may seem smaller, and in the grand scheme to me it is, but he was the love of my life as a child. I can’t explain why a 5 year old feels that way. His music always soothed me.
What is even harder is not being able to be with family. No hugs and tears together in person for a life we loved so much together. And I know this is not a unique situation to our family. But it really does hurt. I can’t be with my church family either.
I don’t know when it will be safe to hug again. I could really use one. But right now I have a cold. I am not really hugging my own family right now b/c I don’t want to give them this cold I have.
And sitting outside at night in a time of quarantine takes me back to when I was grieving the loss of what once was the first time. I am going to work on being aware of this b/c it might be triggering me in ways that I need to make changes based on time of day outside. But it feels so good outside. And I can’t go anywhere but my backyard with this cold.
You know before the quarantine, I was starting to trust where I was in a way that I didn’t need constant reminding that I am loved and safe now. I got to be with the people who are so good to me, and great things were happening. And it will again, I have no doubt. But this past and present meeting like this now makes me have to work harder to remember. I am extremely grateful to be talking to a therapist now. I have only had one session, but it has revealed so much and she has affirmed me in ways that I did not know needed healing.
I felt I should write this b/c I know it is a trying time. This is a shared pain we can journey through together and get to the joy that is coming. That doesn’t mean pain is gone – we are not done on this side of Heaven and we will have to face what hurts. Together we can do this.
I was listening to Jen Hatmaker’s book last night and she said this:
When we have a crew, they have an unbelievable effect on our wholeness.
I can testify to this.

We need an economy with a safety net. We have always been fragile, and now we are seeing how fragile it always was. Rob Bell’s son, Trace, said we built a “Jenga-style” economy. I have a story to speak to this.
When I was struggling with the decision to go to seminary – so many things trying to keep me from doing it: I have been burned before, money, can I do school again, etc.
Here is George’s response: After a message of encouragement he said this: “we” are going to work really hard.
He had no idea how powerful just the word “we” was going to be for me in that moment. It changed me the second I read it. That is the word I am going to remember forever from that email. It also revealed how alone I have always felt in my faith and making hard decisions. We are a tough society on each other. “Pull yourself up by your bootstraps” is bad theology. That isn’t how faith works.
When I had to make a decision about work b/c full-time seminary is no joke. George said this: You aren’t going to fall this time, Lindsay. If you do, it will not be as hard. You have a safety net now. Trust your faith.
Now I am in seminary falling in love with how communal our faith is supposed to be. Our freedom is for each other. I experienced this right before coming and it has changed everything for me. And I work really hard too! When you are empowered, loved and valued-and mentored in a way to see your strengths-it changes a person. Love for the whole community abounds. He had to work hard for me to believe him b/c I have had this door shut to me for so long-I never imagined it.
So right after this is when Tim Keller tried to mansplain something to me and then disappear. I was like “listen here, Tim Kellar, I have a “we” now. and this isn’t going to fly anymore”. I have the Baptists and now I have Methodists.
Praise!

I am trying to get serious and study today. I have done pretty well under the circumstances. But there is something weighing me down and making me want to freeze. I have been sitting with it and trying to listen to this feeling.
I listened to part of Jonathan Martin’s podcast with Glennon Doyle and she gave me some words to what is troubling my spirit. She said when she needs to try and figure something out she writes. using her words she finds the truth. This is true for me too.
Church History is revealing a lot to me. I see why we are where we are, and I feel like we need to talk about it. But before we get there, I want to talk about our worship.
I love Worship class, although I am completely lost. It isn’t my background, and doing it from home is furthering my confusion. But I think my problem is deeper than this. I feel like I am trying to learn something that never had women in mind to be full participants.
Catholics have done better with women because they actually do honor the faithfulness of Mary. She is highly revered in their tradition. They also have a few women saints, not many, but a few. But this isn’t saying much. Their whole birth control and abortion debate has been used to control women (and it is created b/c women are not trusted) – there is a reckoning to be had, and I am serious. Protestants and Baptists have gone along with it too. All in this together. I am trying to make a point that Protestants not only did not move women forward, but also backwards. Martin Luther masculinized Junia’s name in Romans. Paul, the apostle, lists her as an apostle- Luther changed her name to Junias (masculine name).
Glennon said to say what can’t be said.
I am in seminary because I love God with all of my heart. I think Jesus is the best person to ever live, and I believe he is fully God too-but there is something missing in our faith. The divinity of women. I feel this so strongly in my heart, and I believe this is why God wants me in seminary. Many of us know women are not treated as we should, but there is little by way of our worship to correct it. We have told a story for so long that women sinned first, are to remain silent, can’t be trusted, must have babies and be virgins (confusing- I don’t understand it), and we get honored when we can find a little story in the Bible to prove God loves us just as much-we aren’t an afterthought to the creation of man. I am so tired.
We either are presented as virgins or whores in the Bible and in society.
I am going to talk about Old Testament first. The Adam and Eve story is not the first creation story. It is a different story from the one right before it. The one that says male and female are created in the image of God, and created at the same time. This story reveals God of the cosmos. The second story is God walking with humanity. There is grappling with there being a Divine order and human freedom. Human freedom doesn’t always choose the way of God, and this story reveals it. The Adam and Eve story is our story. We make God into the angry judge that God never was. We blame women first. Pain in childbirth was already happening-that isn’t new with Adam and Eve. They are writing a story to make sense of their place and time. And it is written by a patriarchal man/men, but despite the horrendous use of this story on women – and the very flawed and harmful “Original Sin” theology that came LATER by theologians that did not understand the complexity and depth of Hebrew literature-there is still so much value in that story if read responsibly.
Also, the focus on birth in the Genesis story. This is a story written by oppressed people. When the world is trying to wipe you out, what do you want to do? Increase and multiply. I am going to get to Paul in a second post. This is just the beginning.
I told Jake Bruehl there must be a God that I am in a faith that often times fights against my own humanity. But God isn’t, and I know God loves me and this changes the story.
There is another creation story too. Lots of them in the Old Testament. Proverbs 8 is even better than the first two in Genesis. There is a focus on female divinity in that story.

I have hardly had time to grieve the passing of Kenny Rogers. This pandemic consumes me, and so many of us, in ways I wish I could escape. He was my favorite singer growing up. We went to his concert when I was 5 years old because I was obsessed. I don’t remember the music, but I remember seeing him and feeling so happy. Such a funny thing for a five year old. I don’t know why I loved him so much at such a young age, but I did. I think it is his voice. It is so comforting and calm.

Now he is gone, and he died during a pandemic. I don’t know what this is going to mean for his funeral. So I want to share some things, and kind of have my own funeral for him. I did this with Rachel Held Evans too. Been a rough go of it lately losing two of my favorites within a year. Here we are in a pandemic and Rachel’s words are still live, and Kenny’s music is soothing my soul right now too. I hope Rachel and Kenny are hanging out right now. In my mind they are.

I wrote on Twitter that one thing I have noticed about Kenny Rogers is how many duets with women he has done throughout his career. He was always sharing the stage with women, and he showed beautifully that men and women can work together and be the best of friends. No issues with him working with women. Kenny and Dolly were so close. You could tell just by how they interacted in their music, but they have confirmed it verbally too. Who didn’t love Kenny and Dolly? Especially at Christmas- they were my Christmas growing up.

I cry when I think about this world without him. Isn’t it great when we leave something behind that stays alive? I can’t stop listening to his music right now. It is the only thing that gets my mind off the pandemic. He is comforting me again. I feel it. Now he knows how much I loved him and he is coming to help me through this moment in time. The song I am listening to over and over is “You Can’t Make Old Friends”. It is a duet with Dolly Parton. Read these words. It is almost like she prepared herself for this moment a long time ago with Kenny’s help. This is a word to honor a life well lived.

You Can’t Make Old Friends

What will I do when you are gone?
Who’s gonna tell me the truth?
Who’s gonna finish the stories I start
The way you always do?

When somebody knocks at the door
Someone new walks in
I will smile and shake their hands
but you can’t make old friends

You can’t make old friends
Can’t make old friends
It was you and me, since way back when
But you can’t make old friends

How will I sing when you are gone?
Cause it wont sound the same
Who will join in on those harmony parts
When I call your name?

You can’t make old friends
Can’t make old friends
It was you and me, since way back when
But you can’t make old friends

When Saint Peter opens the gate
And you come walking in
I will be there just waiting for you
Cause you can’t make old friends
Cause you can’t make old friends

When I am out on the stage all alone
And I hear the music begin
We all know the show must go on
But you can’t make old friends

You can’t make old friends
Can’t make old friends
And you and me, will be young again
You can’t make old friends

You and me, will be together again
Cause we both know, we will still be old friends

You can’t make old friends
Not the way we have always been

I know these days are scary and uncertain. Faith over fear is not necessarily a true statement. You can be faithful and afraid. But we don’t want to let that fear control us in negative ways. We listen to wisdom in these moments. Listen to people who are telling the truth. But we need to know what the truth is, because fake news is prevalent – and fundamentalism and fake news seem to coincide sadly.
Patch Adams is my very favorite movie. Every part of that movie I relate to in some way. The patient in the mental institution who would yell b/c people would always answer 4 when he held up 4 fingers. He finally got Patch to look deeper at this fingers, and Patch was able to see beyond the 4 fingers seeing 8. Arthur was so happy b/c it was a new way of seeing. He did not say that is the answer, but 8 is A good answer. Not the only one.
A question was asked on Twitter about the future of the church in this pandemic and after. The church has been largely absent from the public square before – hiding in the church building. I find this question fascinating b/c that is a disruptive question I heard at OSU when my Sociology professor told us he wasn’t sure what he believed about God. If there is one – then why isn’t God’s church making the community better. Why are we sectioned off and exclusive. I felt that question. It was my first class at OSU too. So, imagine my surprise that my first class in seminary, 23 years later, is Church in Social Context with Sociologists answering this question.
I am writing this because I had a breakdown like Patch did. Something broke and we needed to be with the people society cast out to get back up and live again. I never thought I would go to church again, and I loved my former church (still do – love was never the problem). But the system I saw in 2016 with the treatment of women and LGBT as insignificant compared to issues that kept power going – abortion and anti-LGBT agenda. I have heard this being blamed even in this moment. This needs to stop. Bad theology has no place in this moment – not now, and not ever. It is time to end it. See differently.
I got to this moment with church that felt similar to Patch’s plea to graduate. Power did not like who he was. He did not fit the narrative. Patch said this:
“Now you have the ability to keep me from graduating. You can keep me from getting the title and the white coat. But you can’t control my spirit, gentlemen. You can’t keep me from learning, you can’t keep me from studying. So you have a choice: you can have me as a professional colleague, passionate, or you can have me as an outspoken outsider, still adamant”. Either way I’ll probably still be viewed as a thorn. But I promise you one thing: I am a thorn that will not go away”.
I tried to run away from church. But God pursued me. Ministers online were preaching a gospel that helped me see differently, and I started listening to voices I was unable to hear before, and my world got bigger. I don’t have answers, but I knew I wanted to live this story.
When I had communion in April 2017 at Jen Hatmaker’s church, and Jonathan Martin was preaching– and they knew me b/c of Twitter; I knew I wanted to go back to church. It isn’t good enough online (but it was great for two years, so I hope this is being heard as encouragement). I needed the sacraments. Which is not a term I grew up using. We didn’t observe the church calendar either, but when I went down – I followed the calendar, and it did something for my soul. I am a big believer in the church calendar – the sacraments – and community in flesh and blood.
I wasn’t able to go to my original home with this new story, but I found one October 2017 -and it was through Moxie Matters (Jen Hatmaker) at SMU with Wilshire Baptist Church as a co-sponsor. It is a series of events that will never cease my wonder and awe of God – I ended up in seminary at Perkins (SMU) a little over a year later after arriving at my new church home.
The mug in this picture is an image on our Tapestry at church. when I got this mug after joining Wilshire on our second visit, I have treasured it so much. It is starting to fade a bit, and I am sad, so I don’t want to use it as much- I have it sit in my window instead. I never knew I could love church this much. And church love me back. It changed my whole world. And this church wants me as a professional colleague.
When I show up for worship now, I feel the power of our worship so deeply in my soul. I leave ready to return as quickly as possible. When I walk in – it feels like an alternate reality. We aren’t competing. Truth can be spoken unashamedly. We care about the world around us. And I had no idea they were going to ask me to join them in the work as an equal – not an outsider trying to break through the silence.
I am praying for restoration and solidarity. I am here. Everyone is beloved. Hold onto hope. We are the ones we have been waiting for.

Rain Walker
(Inspired by and Written for Lindsay)

Running wouldn’t do;
-can’t escape this rain.
It had to be felt…
every.single.drop.

A ride passes by;
-she doesn’t accept.
At times one must walk…
every.single.step.

Approaching the test;
-drenched, but never drowned.
Facing life’s demands…
every.single.one.

Kindness can surprise.
-when least expected.
Bankrupt and in need…
every.single.day.

Rain becomes her way;
-hardships all the time.
Could God have authored…
every.single.line?

Reflect, reset life;
-in unforeseen ways.
Troubles are triumph…
every.single.time.

Mountains can be steep;
-unexpected grades.
Success in the hike…
every.single.climb.
©️Teri Colleen King March 2020
All rights reserved

Yesterday was National Day of Prayer. While I have issues with how that day got started – good can come from anything.

There is a lot of anxiety in the air – including my own. Being in seminary right now could not be more timely, because I feel like it is walking me through this moment, and revealing what needs to be exposed and healed.
Prayer. This semester in church history was mostly about the Reformation, and I am going to talk about that in another post. But we got bookended with two women whose voices we need for a moment like this: Julian of Norwich (so sad we don’t know her real name, but what a blessing we get to know her heart) and St. Teresa of Avila. St. Teresa is a Doctor of the Church – one of four women. I am not Catholic so I don’t know 100% what that means, but I know it is good, and there should be more than four women, considering there are 36 Doctors of the Church.
I have written about Julian of Norwich previously. She wrote during the plague. We aren’t living through the same thing, but it is a moment that is changing us forever-I believe for good #allwillbewell. I highly recommend reading “Showings”. Her imagery of Jesus as our Mother is beautiful and comforting.

St. Teresa of Avila is a Church Mother we also need to know. She was a strong-willed woman. Her dad tried to steer her in other directions but there was no stopping her. I couldn’t love this more. All of the women we have studied had a mystical experience with Christ. St. Teresa’s heart was pierced. She had been in a dry spell and this woke her up and led her to help Christians persevere even in the dry spell. She worked with John of the Cross – yes, she worked with a man! – to reform the Carmelite Order. The church was too worldly. She founded the Discalced Order-they don’t wear shoes. I love that too.
St. Teresa teaches people to pray through a series of water images that comes from her desire to be a companion with the suffering Jesus in the garden. All of the women we have studied used their experience to describe nature and the wounded Jesus.
The first step is drawing water from a well. This will be the hardest step because beginners are used to distractions (this will preach). It also requires picking up the cross, and many quit because they won’t pick up the cross. As prayer advances it will become a water wheel, a stream and finally rain. It is not about an experience, but a process that will lead to love of God and neighbor – and a commitment to serve God with justice and humility.

Part II

The Reformation: Martin Luther, Calvin, Zwingli (and Erasmus)

One strength in being a big picture person is I can see the humanity of these men–whose theology I think is not only harmful, but cruel too–because of the context they are speaking in. The Church has sinned and cheated people, and there is a Rebellion going on. The poor have been exploited and we don’t get away with doing that forever. The Bible is not clear about many things, but caring for the poor is quite clear.

Erasmus began to challenge to works righteousness and medieval piety. He did this in large part due to the church selling indulgences- indulgences were given to people when they came to confession and the money was supposed to go to the poor or charity (there is more to it, but I will spare all the details in this post). The church was working on a new basilica and paying off gambling debts. So the church is not trustworthy and I can imagine the betrayal these men feel. Erasmus is so militant though – and I think that language floods our churches too– “law and order” – but according to the militant man. Erasmus is responsible for creating a dualism between flesh and spirit. He misunderstood Paul and the philosophers in creating this theology.
Luther takes it further. Erasmus doesn’t even agree with Luther. But Erasmus inspired Luther – so there is that! I feel for Martin Luther because he was a tortured soul. He struggled with his own personal sins and kept coming to the church for indulgences to clear his conscience. Luther is influenced by Augustine with the personal sin agony. See what happens when we base our theology on people and not what God is saying. Erasmus and Augustine neither one would condone what Luther did with their theology. And Paul is yelling at all of them. It is a never ending cycle of building off someone’s theology with a lack of understanding (or respect) of their theology in full context. At least Luther and Erasmus are contemporaries and can debate each other in person about it.
Luther redacts Paul, and creates the Bible he wants to ease his troubled soul. He created three Solas: Sola fide – Faith alone, sola gratia – Grace alone, sola scriptura- Scripture alone. Keep in mind Luther cut things out of the Bible and then said Scripture alone. He came up with “total depravity” and said humans are only free to sin. We lost the image of God in us with “Original Sin” (thanks Augustine!). Only God is just and all we can offer is our sinfulness.
This is so insulting to God I can hardly contain myself.
But I hear Luther’s pain. I have felt rejection when I was trying to serve faithfully according to what I had been taught. What I have learned is that it is best to work through our pain before we reform the church. Just something I learned along the way. 😁
Then Zwingli – who is lesser known but probably the most influential in our churches, and we had no idea. At least I didn’t. He took it all the way. Get rid of everything not listed in Scripture. He threw out the organ b/c of this for crying out loud! And art- iconoclasm. He started a ministry of the word. There is no mediation of spirit through matter. (Getting really gnostic now!). He also challenges sacraments – they cannot confer grace, only grace already received. It is a memorial. Believe what you want about this, but I believe in a Living God, so I would never make a hardcore theology stance on something like this. They are claiming absolutes on what they know not. And there is something about believing in the power of the sacraments. It is an invitation to the life of Christ – their theology is taking the human today out of the story. The word is no longer living and our story now.
Then Calvin – CALVIN!!!!! Takes all of this even further and adds penal substitution. Jesus’s death took on God’s wrath. This is just getting uglier and uglier, and we have this theology in a lot of churches today-I can’t emphasize this enough. It isn’t good fruit. So much militarism and telling people what to do and believe. and it isn’t good for us psychologically to hear what these men are saying about humanity. Our bodies matter. The Old Testament, Jesus and Paul never sent the message these men are sending. Calvin also believed the civil authorities were subject to the clergy. His followers became aggressive and zealous- very active making society fit their agenda. And it is so strange b/c not only did Luther, Zwingli and Calvin not believe the human is active in cooperating with grace, but they also believed God predestined some people to be damned. So this forcing people to convert and government be what they say it should be- goes against the teaching humans do not participate. They are participating in what they believe.
We need to name this and repent. This isn’t about shame, but correcting our Christian theology so we are good for the world. Body, mind and spirit. All of it matters.